Comments on David Alison's Blog: Switching to Mac isn't right for everyone

I've always found a good way to interest older use...

2008-05-31T06:44:27.827-04:00

I've always found a good way to interest older users in PC's has been to show them how to use it to make more of an Interest or Hobby they have.

It's amazing how soon they are asking how to do more with their new found friend! :0)

Good Luck1

@Anon: I hear you - believe me. The reality is tha...

2008-05-23T17:29:02.862-04:00

@Anon: I hear you - believe me. The reality is that the money part isn't the issue. It's the fact that I know how much work it will be to set them up with something they are not asking for and in all likelihood would share the same fate as that old Compaq.

I don't know man...I feel like you should get them...

2008-05-23T16:49:59.739-04:00

I don't know man...

I feel like you should get them the introductory $599 Mac Mini (and use their old monitor and printer) OR a refurb MacBook. Something that'll meet their needs and not spend 1200 dollars.

You can add a camera to the Mac Mini for 10-15 bucks at Target/Wal-Mart.

@Raster: They are in Southern Cal - Orange County....

2008-05-13T15:05:24.660-04:00

@Raster: They are in Southern Cal - Orange County.

@David: If it's not too personal of a question, w...

2008-05-13T15:00:17.274-04:00

@David: If it's not too personal of a question, what part of the country do your folks live?

---RASTER

@Chris, That was an apt analogy relating to peers....

2008-05-13T14:56:40.790-04:00

@Chris, That was an apt analogy relating to peers.

You're absolutely right. It does seem that the only time folks (especially elders) want to catch up is when they get the sense that they're being left behind!

---RASTER

@Jacob: You've pretty much summed up where I am ma...

2008-05-13T07:53:27.920-04:00

@Jacob: You've pretty much summed up where I am man.

@Raster: That was an excellent comment - and I appreciate your feedback and the advice in there! There is a part of me that really wants to get them into the digital age but it's not a matter of me opening the door for them to walk through.

I'd have to open the door and drag them through it. Then go back to my own stuff, occasionally turning around to find them backing out of the room, at which point I'd have to run over and drag them back through again.

This process would likely go on for a long time and in all likelihood my parents would only use the computer when I prompted them to. In the end I think my parents are happy where they are from a technology standpoint and their needs are very simple.

@Chris: That is a great idea - getting a peer level person that can help them! The problem is that my parents have isolated themselves, moving to a new community shortly after they both retired and not making too many friends - especially of the variety that use computers.

Ah! This reminds me of 20 years ago when I was wor...

2008-05-13T07:46:15.041-04:00

Ah! This reminds me of 20 years ago when I was working for the police and we introduced computers to police stations. We made it optional to use them. So all the younger cops leapt onto them, but all the oldies stuck to safety of their typewriters.

In no time at all though, the oldies were using the computers too. Why? Because they saw how much easier it was to redo reports (that nearly always needed changes). A quick edit, and press the print button. Unlike the typewriter where the whole report had to be retyped.

This story tells you three things:

1) People resistant to technology will only change when they can clearly see a value to them.

2) That change is most likely when it's their peers who demonstrate the advantage.

3) And not so obviously, there's safety in having someone local - especially peers -to hold your hand. (In my story, the young police in the stations.)

I can understand why you want your mum and dad online, but the only way it seems that will happen is if they have friends their age who can show them the benefits and then help them learn.

Your chances may not be that great of finding a friend of theirs using Macs, but it might be something to consider.

Hey David,On Family Support...I'm guessing that ma...

2008-05-13T06:48:28.945-04:00

Hey David,

On Family Support...
I'm guessing that many of the folks reading your blog have found themselves to be the de-facto user support technicians for their respective families. I know I'm the go-to-guy for all things tech in mine. I'm always looking for ways to ease that "responsibility."

Here are a few things I've found that have helped a lot;

Always use a Mac unless there is a good reason not to.
For new users, especially the elderly, always use Parental Controls & Limited Accounts.
Always go with Cable Modem or High Speed DSL. It really does not pay to go cheap here!
Use something like LogMeIn for remote support.
Optionally get Dot Mac (Family Pack if you can afford it.) It's good for backups and useful for sharing data.

For the Folks...
For your situation David, you might consider sending the folks your "old" MacBook and get a refurb MacBook Pro for yourself. I know, it's a little self serving, but why not treat yourself for being such a good son! Heck, get your brother to send you half the value of the MacBook and you can both be heroes!

Make it Easy...
I'd strongly recommend that you configure your folk's user account(s) on whatever Mac they get, with Parental Controls. They call it "Parental" controls for a reason!

It will limit and simplify the UI drastically. This way the icons are all "locked down" in the dock and in the Application/Documents Folders. They absolutely can't mess things up by dragging the icons anywhere! It really does make it easier for them by reducing all their options to a finite and manageable few.

Additionally, it will make supporting and teaching them how to use the Mac significantly easier for you. Later you can always expand their access to other parts of the system by degrees if or when it's appropriate.

Also consider installing the LogMeIn "Free" client (that way, at no cost, you can help them from any system that has internet access.) iChat is really great and Leopard screen sharing works well most of the time with a fast enough connection, but LogMeIn has ALWAYS worked for me even with a low bandwidth connection. The LMI service works from ANY computer with a browser and an internet connection. LMI is beginning to replace most of my TB2 (Timbuktu) requirements. It's very flexible and has a decent Mac implementation, though not as good as it is for Windows -- Welcome to the Mac in a Windows world!

Sow's Ear? Not for Us...
Rumors are that Dot Mac services are about to expand soon and I'm anxious to see what Apple has in mind by way of expanded services. Dot Mac has changed quite a bit since it's initial free introduction. It's really too bad that Apple had to make it a paid subscription, but even at 50 cents a day, it's been worth it for us.

In addition to using iDisk as your own small private FTP server (iDisk is cross-platform BTW), you can sync Safari Bookmarks, iCal Calendars, Address Book Contacts, Email Accounts, Keychains, and more with the service. It's nice to have an offsite backup of much of the stuff that makes your Mac "personalized." It's no Time Machine, and not meant to be ones primary backup by any means, but it serves it's purpose. The service also provides a destination for public or private photo's, websites, shared calendars or announcements.

Change & Quality Time...
Obviously if your folks just can't muster the interest to learn and use the "new fangled gadgets", there's not a lot you can do.

From what I've been told though, it's a bit like it was when telephones were first becoming popular. It was not uncommon to hear the comment "If I want to talk to Bill, I'll just get on the horse and ride to his place!"

It's pretty obvious to most folks today that computers will be a necessity in the not too distant future. I guess I'm a sucker for catch phrases, but there is a growing digital divide, and who wants those they care most about to be on the wrong side? Those without will have no choice but to saddle up!

What I did to get my 82 year old Mom In-Law onboard was to schedule a weekly virtual meeting. No phones allowed except for emergencies during that meeting. If I'm not available, I always have one of my relatives stand in for me. The nephews and nieces all jump at the chance to show Grandma around the computer, and they're darn good at it too. If nothing else, it's a great self esteem builder for them and an opportunity to spend more time with Grandma.

Time with our folks or Grand folks just seems too short not to give it try!

In Closing...
I think I remember you mentioning that you had a kid that was constantly devising a way to get a Mac? Well, if all else fails and your folks don't take to the MacBook, it sounds like it could always find a home, back at home!

Cheers!

---RASTER

Jeff L. Koffel, Technologist
Takena Technical Services
Albany, Oregon

Disclaimer: I'm a primarily a Mac guy since 1984, but have been multi-platform since it all began. It's occasionally been rough through the years to side with Apple, but for the most part, I'm glad I did. Recently It's been refreshing to see the company and their products becoming more popular with a broader audience. I just hope they don't screw it up! I have a laundry list of things I love and hate on both platforms. I don't love Steve Jobs and I don't hate Bill Gates. I make a great living supporting both Macs and PC's, but to be fair, it's mostly PC support that pays the rent.

Apologies for the long post.

It's all about needs. And habits. Never underestim...

2008-05-13T05:17:14.782-04:00

It's all about needs. And habits. Never underestimate habits.

I'm in a similar situation. My dad asked me "if I need a new machine, which one would you recomment ?".

Dad, get the 20" iMac. It's perfect for your needs.

They do some IM, some Skype with us (we're at the other end of the country), email, and photos.

The iMac would be perfect for them. Plus it looks good, and says nothing. Perfect.

But you know what ? They're not keen on learning another new platform.

Cause they're used to Windows, and that's what they use everywhere else.

A shame. I'd love to get my parents on the Mac-wagon, I'm pretty sure they'd love it too.

But old habits are hard to break, even if their needs support switching to an iMac.

On the other hand, I've just settled for the basic fact that you did David. They have to want it, to be happy about it. They don't need their geek son to force it upon them.

Nobody would win from that decision.

I'll keep working them though, showing them the greatness of the iMac and photos, every time they come by :D ;)

@Paulie: I hear you man. The older you get, the le...

2008-05-12T17:56:44.987-04:00

@Paulie: I hear you man. The older you get, the less change you want and the less adaptable you become to change when it happens.

In the end I just want my parents happy. I'd love for them to explore some new horizons and become proficient with newer technology but at the end of the day I don't know that they would really use it all that much. I'd be forcing a technology on them because I wanted them to have it, not because they even asked for it.

David, I hate to admit this, but I bought my mothe...

2008-05-12T17:40:35.679-04:00

David, I hate to admit this, but I bought my mother (she's 83 years old) an MSN TV (it was called WebTV then) to use for email. Mom lives on her own, doesn't drive, and really wanted to be able to keep in touch with her family scattered around the country and in England. All she uses is email, but she loves to see the photos people attach, and she loves to forward those junky, funny emails folks send around. It gives her lots of pleasure, is easy enough for her to use (at least for her limited requirements), and just works.

She's visiting with me right now, and I've set her email up on a PowerBook. It's too difficult for her to use! She's eager to get back to her MSN TV.

I'm a long-time Apple guy, going back to the very first model of Mac, but I gotta say this MSN TV thing gets the job done for Mom.

If it was me, I would buy them a new Mac and let t...

2008-05-12T15:47:19.792-04:00

If it was me, I would buy them a new Mac and let them continue using both machines, the new and the old. It will take them some time to get used to the new machine, but can always fall back on the old one whenever they "get stuck." Eventually, in time, they will get used to the new machine - maybe sooner than you think.

Keep in mind folks my parents are in their 70s (my...

2008-05-12T14:09:44.173-04:00

Keep in mind folks my parents are in their 70s (my Mom just hit 78) and she isn't asking for a computer. She has no concept of e-mail or the internet so pushing ANY computer on them, even one as simple as a Macintosh, would be a challenge.

As the anon poster above points out, it would require a level of remedial training that would have questionable returns.

I am actually considering getting them a Wii. At least that would get them to become a little more active - as they've gotten older they have become very sedentary. Getting old really sucks.

If they are near an Apple Store just get them the ...

2008-05-12T13:37:57.157-04:00

If they are near an Apple Store just get them the $99 One to One program as well... then you can let the Apple employees teach them how to use the computer to do what they want with it.

Eric

Hi David, I enjoy reading your posts.Yeah, the pro...

2008-05-12T13:35:02.126-04:00

Hi David, I enjoy reading your posts.

Yeah, the problem you've identified is that your parents would probably need the kind of tutorials and introductions to the Mac (and computing) that were available in say, 1984, when all aspects of modern GUIs were completely new to everyone. Now it's almost 25 years later, and the starting point for introductions and tutorials has irrevocably moved. I don't even know where you'd go to find resources for teaching people who have never touched a computer before and have no baseline for any of the concepts and symbols involved. 25 years is a long time--heck, 15 years was a long time in 1999! (I suspect you'd have to look at how kids learn computers, both at home and in school for clues on how to get older adults up and running. But the disadvantage is that kids have no preconceived notions, and adults do, so adults often have a disability to explore and engage new things without apprehension.)

Even those who have been learning along with the growth of the PC industry can be stumped if they only use their machines for very specific purposes and are suddenly confronted with a new application or a new problem to solve.

David! How heartless of you to plop down a compute...

2008-05-12T13:24:23.760-04:00

David! How heartless of you to plop down a computer then take off. No matter how well set up, you still ought to have had a few training sessions for them.

That Epson won't print now. It's ink dried out eons ago.

@Charles: Online banking AND spyware? Egad!

Methinks you should talk to them first about what they might be interested in doing with a Mac before changing. They might like video iChat with their grandkids. (Just make sure the firwall/NAT setups are all good before you leave if you do such a thing.)

My stepmother had the same experience. She bought ...

2008-05-12T12:49:53.135-04:00

My stepmother had the same experience. She bought a nonamo PC with AOL on it and Windows ME.

It ended up so virus infected her "helpful" "techie" friend installed--wait for it--Linux on it. Confused her even more.

She was barely able to send emails and surf the web.

I gave her an old broken-screen iBook connected to her monitor. A week later, she emailed me a photograph from her new digital camera.

She went from afraid of her computer to loving her mac.

@Robert - you reminded me of that t-shirt "Windows...

2008-05-12T12:42:57.800-04:00

@Robert - you reminded me of that t-shirt "Windows 95 = Macintosh 89"

If you get them a Mac, be sure to install a regist...

2008-05-12T12:24:44.675-04:00

If you get them a Mac, be sure to install a registered version of Burning Monkey Solitaire.

If you're going to do something over and over and over again, do it right! :)

I think you should buy them a Mac, and install Tim...

2008-05-12T12:01:16.454-04:00

I think you should buy them a Mac, and install Timbuktu Pro on it (or use Leopard iChat's screen sharing ability) to provide remote tech support.

That's what I do with my parents, and it's worked out beautifully.

Remember that one way or another, you're going to be giving them tech support, but with the Mac, they will actually have LESS questions & problems than with a Windows PC.

Dude, I am totally there! My dad had one of those...

2008-05-12T11:46:13.918-04:00

Dude, I am totally there! My dad had one of those original blueberry iMacs running 9.2.2. I automated it as much as I could, but I'd get calls from him begging for help that go something like this:

Dad: The thing with my letters isn't there any more.
Me: {asking a series of questions, trying to determine if his MacWrite (!) files got blown away}
Dad: No, I mean the thing used to open, but now there's this stripey bar down at the bottom of the screen.

In other words, my Dad had inadvertently moved the window down to the bottom of the screen. He didn't even know you could move windows around, so when it wasn't where he expected it, he freaked.

I gave up trying to support him remotely. My sisters tell me I use too much technical jargon, but it's hard not to use terms like "windows", "icons" and "files". My dad now uses one of those two-piece iMacs (with the round base) with Tiger on it, thanks to a local tech support freelancer. My dad and I don't talk about computers any more...

I'm actually really glad I've helped my mom and gr...

2008-05-12T11:29:09.803-04:00

I'm actually really glad I've helped my mom and grandparents get Macs up and running for them. Now that I do live away from them, iChat for video chat and remote help has been very useful.

The key thing is that you can't just give them a tool. You have to show them a use for the tool that they will enjoy. If you present it to them going "look, now you have a computer", then what happened with the Compaq would happen again. But if you present it to them as "look, heres a great way we can chat and allow you to stay connected with the kids", they will probably overcome whatever barriers to use the machine, even if they never get much more out of it beyond the video chat.

So, if you do plan on getting them one, make sure you are there to set it up initially, then show them iChat on the LAN between your laptop so they get the idea. Setup wise, you might want to look into setting their accounts up using the Simple finder and such to also slim down the chances of them going outside their comfort zone. If you get .Mac, then you can use Back to my Mac to always be able to hop in on your own to look at any issues they are having.

I never really thought my grandmother would use her iBook all that much. But here we are 5 years later, and while she doesn't use a ton of things on it, she uses e-mail a lot, and also uses Safari to get new recipes. My grandfather has his own system as well, and he uses it to play poker online, and to chat with me.

@Robert: thanks man, but I've already got the card...

2008-05-12T11:17:37.272-04:00

@Robert: thanks man, but I've already got the card playing task covered.

@Anon: yep, that's it. I have incredible parents - the best I could ask for - they just don't have any interest in technology. The irony for me is the role technology has played in my life is so big.

Converting my in-laws to Macs was very painful. M...

2008-05-12T11:15:15.108-04:00

Converting my in-laws to Macs was very painful. My father-in-law had such severe PTSD from windows, he was afraid to try anything. However, now two years later things seem to have reached an equilibrium where they are almost self sufficient. Their switch has tempered my zeal in encouraging people to switch.